I have a relative, a nasty closed-minded kind of guy–homophobic, misogynistic, and just generally lousy. A couple of years ago, he saw fit to apologize to me for any gay jokes that might have offended me. I suspect this was prompted by other relatives, and not by any inner guilt or empathy–by my best estimation, this individual isn’t capable of feeling such things.
“I’m sorry,” he said. “I hope you know I was just kidding, and I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.”
I accepted the apology, surprised as I was to receive it, but I took the opportunity to deliver a little lecture. I explained that, as a man in my late 20’s (at the time) I was secure in my queer identity–certainly secure enough that the jokes and opinions of small-minded bigots didn’t hurt my feelings. But, I said, it wasn’t me he should be concerned about.
Think of your daughter, I told him. At the time she was 6 or 7 years old, and she was generally present when he made such jokes. What if she found herself, at that age or older, questioning her sexual orientation and identity? That’s a tumultuous, agonizing experience for any person, and would he want her going through it alone? I’m sure what he’d want her to know is that he loved her and he’d be there for her, but after years of hearing his jokes and comments she was more likely to think he’d hate her, and fear his judgment.
What about strangers, I said, who hear you calling the Red Sox pitcher a faggot at Shea Stadium, or making some homophobic comment on the sidewalk or in a random parking lot? Think about the kids who are going through that same turmoil, wondering if they are as evil in nature as some people say, and maybe even contemplating suicide? It’s one thing to apologize and explain yourself to your adult relatives, but are you going to follow up with all of them?
I bring up this story now because I’m inclined to give the same lecture to everyone I see mocking Bruce Jenner on Facebook and Twitter. Sure, the man is a millionaire celebrity and a public figure, and sure he opened himself up to ridicule when he joined his family in becoming a television freak show. But it’s not Bruce Jenner’s feelings you should consider when deciding whether to share that hilarious picture with the transphobic caption; it’s the feelings of all the other people you’re communicating with, the friends and neighbors and total strangers who are measuring society’s reaction to Bruce Jenner and thinking that’s how everyone thinks about me.
The human brain is evolved and programmed to crave the approval of your peers, and it’s a damned difficult thing to be different. Difficult enough that some people would rather die–and trans people at a higher rate than almost anyone else. That little joke you make at the expense of a millionaire celebrity might get some laughs from your friends, but it also just might contribute to the death of a trans kid, be it suicide or murder at the hands of those who choose to “express their transphobia” through homicide.
No matter how hilarious that little joke, no matter how big a target Bruce Jenner might be right now, that just doesn’t seem worth it to me. Keep the joke to yourself, and then you won’t have to apologize to anyone.
294 thoughts on “Here’s what you should think about before making that Bruce Jenner joke”
In a world of disconnected connections via social media, along with 24/7 information at our finger tips we have lost sight in the ramifications of our freedom of speech. Negativity , either comedic or malicious has negative affects on people. No one is taking responsibility for their words anymore.
I believe the children are listening to everything the adults say and do. We are setting the bar so low for our future generations by spreading negative thoughts about anyone, especially people we have no knowledge about. How about thinking , just for a second that Bruce Jenner is a man who, may or may not have, struggled is entire life with identity . I’ve struggled with an idea , a simple decision in my life that at the time SEEMED life altering .
But he is truly lived with a life altering struggle.
My point is everyone has there struggle. I teach my kids help someone in need, without judgement without glory for yourself whenever you can.
The Focus needs to change .
You know what? NONE of this is anyone’s business but Bruce Jenner’s………………!
It may not be anyones’ business but it will be Gods’ when it comes to White Throne Judgment. Everyone that has not accepted Jesus as their personal Savior, they will not be found in the Book of Life. On the other hand, if he/she ever does come to know the Lord Jesus as his Savior and ask for forgiveness for all the wrong in his/her life. In an instant when to Lord returns for His own, he will be given an incorruptible body and he won’t have to pass through the judgment. But as long as he doesn’t accept Him as Savior of his life, he will remain an abomination unto God because He speaks of it in His Word.
Leviticus 20:13 — If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. (kjv) I hope you think about this Liz. May the Lord touch your heart and bring you to Him for He loves you very much, John 3:16 (kjv)
I think Bruce Jenner is amazing to be doing this at his age and living in the public eye like he does. I can only imagine the pain he has lived with over the course of his life.
[COMMENT DELETED – BELOW FROM CHRIS]
I don’t delete many things, but threats of violence (or incitement of the same), when not clearly used figuratively or at least accompanied by some attempt at a worthwhile argument, cross the line.
Bruce Brenner? Never heard of her.
I have a transgender friend who transitioned late in life. I can honestly say, I don’t know one single person as brave as she is. I cannot imagine the courage to do such a thing. Good for Bruce Jenner.
Nice of you to say, Judy. I hope your friend knows you feel that way.
So, Chris you thinks it’s wrong to make fun of people and that we should keep such criticisms to ourself. But your whole essay is you calling your own family members, Bruce Jenner, and the Kardashians closed minded freak shows and you put it out there for the whole world to see.
You need to examine yourself, and the dictionary…under the word “hypocrite”.
Mark, you’ve misunderstood the core of my central argument, and misread on a few other points as well.
Have you ever considered that it may be the oversexualized nature of his life with the Kardashian clan and their sex show that may have led to his confusion and his desire now for a sexual conversion? It wasn’t long ago that he renewed his marriage vows to this wife on TV–for money. This is messed up.
Cheri, there are many things about the Kardashian family that strike me as “messed up,” but Bruce Jenner’s gender identity isn’t among them. I don’t think “confused” is the right word for what he’s experiencing, and I don’t think this has anything to do with the Kardashians being “oversexualized.” I think you’re trying to force your own morals on someone else and, frankly, confusing what you’ve seen on television with reality.
Amen Chris!! And thanks for your post!!
Yes, because no one has ever said wedding vows while hiding some truth about themselves that goes contrary to the vows they’re speaking…
Cheri why is this messed up for you? And really that is what it is for you and not for others and certainly not for Bruce.
He is not confused but I would guess that you are, as you clearly don’t understand what it means to be a transgendered person and in fact we’re not at all confused, we know that we are one gender trapped in the opposite gender’s body and it needs to get sorted out in order that we can carry on. Nothing confusing about that.
You “know” that you are trapped in the opposite gender’s body in the same way that a schizophrenic “knows” that the voices they hear are real. You are mentally ill. You are not trapped in the wrong body. Your brains are miswired and defective and thus tell you that you are trapped in the wrong body and like the schizophrenic who hears those voices you can’t distinguish reality from insanity. It isn’t really your fault. You are sick. Your brains simply are not functioning properly with regard to perception of your own gender. You are not ever going to be the opposite sex no matter how much you try to impersonate it. The simple fact is Jenner looks and sounds like the drag queen he is. So, rather than give in to your mental illness I suggest you try to treat it.
I am sorry. I watched Bruce Jenner jump off of a diving board 30 years ago, and all I could say was that “lucky s o b.”. He was about the most handsome man alive at the time, and yes now he is a little older, but really, he is going to make one ugly woman. Please understand here that I could give a flip with whatever he wants to become, but God spent a little extra time on Bruce, and he is still a bit easy on the eyes. I know a lot of guys who could transition much better than old Bruce, but I also understand that it is not the point. I guess it’s just such a waste of raw masculinity. His ex wife would make any man crazy anyway, and his girls are sure a fine example of being lady like , and Kim is the nastiest b—–, I have ever seen. Actually, I have heard she is very sweet and nice, but her mom is going to live again through her. Mr.Jenner, please put those blue speeds back on and get a grip, and a mirror, and get good with being bruce.
George, just because you tried to be complimentary in your delivery doesn’t change the fact that what you have said is cruel and insensitive and lacks any understanding of what Bruce Jenner is struggling with.
George, you are an ignorant idiot. You are talking about Greg Louganis, who is Gay out and proud. Bruce Jenner won 2 Golds 40 years ago in the decathalon.
Thanks Monica- I was scrolling down to say that…. 🙂
Hahaha!! Nice, Monica!
Great post. Thanks for writing.
I don’t know him. And it’s that simple. I have my life, he has his, whatever his goals, his hurdles, his achievements, they’re his and his alone, (And his loved ones). If he is the man who I’ve read about undergoing transitioning, then the best of luck… if his criticism was that of someone who felt hurt, then it’s often the way it is… his just happened to be public. ‘If we spend to much time looking back, the future still carries on, and we miss out – so here’s to the future.’
@author: wow, you’re a pretty judgmental person considering how non-judgmental you’re preaching at everyone to be. Your “relative” didn’t have to apologize to you at all if he didn’t care at least a little about your feelings and how they affected the family dynamic. Nah, you instead CHOOSE to believe he was being coerced into it out of some martyr-ish desire to go lecture mode on him.
When I taught, I gave my students one more reason to stop using terms like “fag” and other slurs. When you say this, you don’t really know who you are saying it in front of. It may be your boss, whose son is gay, and you just kissed your chance for any promotions goodbye. It may be your best friend, whose sister just came out, but he hasn’t told you yet. Once you get used to saying it, it is easy to do, and you never know who you are saying it in front of. But mostly, it is cruel and like using racial slurs, it diminishes you as a person.
I must admit to watching the Kardashians every now and then when I venture back to North America, and I don’t really find any of them any more “offensive” than any other reality T.V show. That is really besides the point however, good for Bruce, it must have been a very lonely life thus far having to hide who he is.
I dont understand how a man can become a woman, I mean, you dont have the internal parts of a woman, the body isnt what we need to focus on in this life, but, thats just my opinion, and I wouldnt try to change anyone, guess I just dont understand
You don’t have to focus on your body because your brain matches your body, but try really hard to imagine that when you looked in the mirror you saw the opposite gender and no matter what you did, your body would not fit what your brain and your core of your being felt like. Try to imagine having that opposite body, 24/7 and everyone responding to you as that gender, and you could only wear clothing and your hair to fit that a gender which is the complete and utter opposite of how you feel and see yourself.
If that doesn’t work, try to imagine someone forcing you to wear clothing that not only was really uncomfortable, but that when you saw yourself in these clothes you absolutely hated the way you looked, but no matter what you did, you were forced to wear these clothes.
Maybe that will give you a sense of what it’s like to be transgender. Let me guarantee you no one wants this, but we are born this way, you must understand that.
It doesn’t matter that we cannot fully be male or female in the way that someone who was born that way is, but we really need to match our brains as much as possible.
This is going to come across as being an extreme way to explain, but it’s the only way I can think of to explain it. If I was to lose any external part of me, that people associate with me being a woman, (There are diseases to make that a possibility, as well as accidents). Then to me it changes nothing, I’d still be a woman. That is because my heart and mind match what people see. Now the difference is, is transgender people are already born without the parts that they feel inside their mind/hearts are theirs, and transitioning is the only way they can match what’s on the outside to what’s inside. I guess extreme surgery and hormones are correction, it’s the key to happiness for some, another example I can think of, is the woman who has breast implants because she’s flat chested, and although it doesn’t change the fact that she’s a woman, it just fills in the void in her mind, life, heart, confidence and self esteem, because her flat chest destroys all of those things, as it’s not right by her deep down/emotionally, maybe it makes her feel like a man or suicidal, it restricts everything for her, well, Bruce is doing the same – but it’s a whole body. (Or however much Bruce chooses to go through before finally feeling complete both inside and out, as a woman)
I wish people would stop bullying Bruce Jenner –
Hummm, it never crossed my mind to make a joke at his expensive (or as the author of this post rightly put it — at the expensive of others dealing with identity issues). The only thing I could feel was sadness that it is only now s/he has come to terms with her/himself and wonder how many wasteful years were spent struggling to be someone s/he wasn’t. I’m happy and proud that Bruce has reach this point in life. And I am tired of advocates trying to push Bruce into roles or positions to do more and/or blaming Bruce for not being a stronger voice for their cause, people contribute in their own ways. Sure the cause has worthwhile one, saving youths, but don’t waste your energy ridiculing others, it is counter productive — give Bruce room to breath and appreciate the next step in self-actualization. Congratulations Bruce. Great post Chris.
The only issue I’ve ever had with Bruce Jenner had was with Kris. *eyeroll* All of her public comments and pushing herself and everyone in her family further into the public eye. Enough. Please.
I give him mad props for the steps he is taking to find himself where he wants to be and as it would for anyone my heart breaks at all he has been through over his life. And I do realize that soon enough I’ll be saying her and herself. But I don’t know that we’re there yet and want to write appropriately.
Great post. Thank you for writing it.
To my knowledge, he does not presently use feminine pronouns, and I’ve not heard anything about a name change, so I think you’re correct. That said, I don’t follow the family (or any celebrity news) particularly closely, so I might not be a reliable source.
Thanks for the comment!
As a professor of gender studies, I commend Bruce Jenner for becoming the person he believes he is and should have been … where his biological components are out of sync with his gender identity. It’s this question — gender identity — that I’m still trying to understand. According to his interview with People magazine, Mr. Jenner continues to be attracted to women. So, ultimately, does that make him a “lesbian?” Or must our capacity for gender identification and sexual orientation terminology continue to grow? At this point, I can’t get past how “queer” it seems.
Forgive me, but as a professor of gender studies, how can your view of gender still be so tied to sexual attraction? One’s gender is NOT defined by the gender to whom one is attracted, and with no disrespect intended, if you have trouble with that my sense is that you need to catch up on the research and reading in your field.
I agree with Chris. As a trans advocate myself, check out http://www.genderoddyssey.org
There is a yearly gender conference in Seattle. I think attendance would be good for you.
I think the address Anon above meant to list was: http://www.genderodyssey.org
I too am confused when a professor of gender studies is unclear on the idea of gender identity. A person’s gender identity is the gender they feel connected to or associate with most strongly. In some people this is not the gender they were born with, or assigned. Sexuality is another matter and is really a personal matter as well. We really do not know unless people share or we have an intimate relationship with them.
Gender identity is a fallacy. To say you feel more comfortable as a particular gender, that is not your own, is an impossibility. The correct statement would be to say that you THINK you feel that way. As it is impossible for one to fully understand what it is to be another gender. Truth be told, in my opinion; you are who YOU are. Yes, your feelings may change, and so may your identity, throughout your life. Not just your sexuality but any other various aspects of who you identify yourself as. Does one thing supersede the others? Should one aspect of your life identity you? No. What you chose to do with those aspects and how you represent yourself are what define you. In turn, you then define those aspects for everyone else who knows or observes you.
We are our own greatest advocates and detractors, all at once.
[COMMENT DELETED – BELOW FROM CHRIS]
I don’t delete many things, but threats of violence (or incitement of the same), when not clearly used figuratively or at least accompanied by some attempt at a worthwhile argument, cross the line.
Whatever makes a person happy. Nobody should be judging, everyone has there flaws. Just not all of us is in the medias eyes!!
All of us are in Gods eye.. This isn’t just a sin against God it’s a sin against society. If someone wants to be gay fine .. As long as they don’t practice it. This is a terrible message to send to society .. Instead let him show he is happy with the life God gave him .. That will be what inspires others.
And if you feel the need to judge on God’s behalf, even though the Bible specifically states that God’s children are NOT to judge, but to leave that to him, you go ahead and commit that sin. You go ahead and presume to know what others are going through and what is best for them. I’m sure that God doesn’t mind one bit that you’ve presumed to do his job for him.
We are all on our own journeys to find our truth and our happiness, let this woman alone. She found herself, good for her.
May I say everyone who has a problem with sin is not a bad person, but just maybe a God fearing person who wants everyone to enter the gates of Heaven. A Soul is a terrible thing to waist. But if a person just wants to go to Hell I guess that’s his or her choice to make.
god loves you so much he invented hell in case you didn’t love him back…your mom and dad love you so much they will put you into a room of fire and torture you if you don’t love them back…my husband loves me so much, he has a special room of torture in case i don’t love him back…that is abusive and sick…and saying someone wants to go to hell? and it’s their choice? that is called blaming the victim
In the Christian doctrine, Hell isn’t a place designed to torture its residents. Hell is giving people exactly what they want and asked for – separation from God. The Christian doctrine says that this is the ultimate form of suffering, as there is no forgiveness for sin without Jesus and God present. However, if you want that forgiveness, then you don’t go to Hell.
Tl;dr Hell is separation from God, nothing more, but living without God in itself is suffering.
Everyone is a CHILD OF GOD……OUR SAVIOR. …AMEN……..
I can’t imagine living a life where people can say hurtful things for no reason. Is Bruce hurting anyone? No he isn’t so people should get over it and let him be. I really hope that his family sticks by him through this journey so the hurtful words of strangers won’t hurt as much. Bruce has courage to be honest with himself and his family. Way to go!!!
Technically, he is at least partly responsible for hurting 7 people and killing one.
As the former wife of a man( a mother who was left behind with three wounded and devastated children),I have some qualifications to say something. He did not find happiness,although fun for awhile.There are deep regrets,and the kids,now adults are still suffering from his search for happiness.They are very compassionate about their dad,yet we were left homeless,& penniless,the kids were suicidal,and we ,as a family were isolated-except for a few insensitive questions,and uninformed advice.We,could not afford decent counseling ,Our family will not be glued to the t.v. to watch this, it really is far more complex,than John Q Public really wants to know. Real joy comes from within.
In my personal experience only, I have noticed that most persons who bash the LGBT community are having issues with their sexuality themselves and have probably been thru exactly what they’re doing and how you’re saying this is affecting a lot of people trying to deal with themselves.. As I did.. Because they feel their loves ones or communities won’t accept them so they try harder to deny who they are.. Not all but I noticed in my youth the biggest bashers actually came out around the same time as me…
I think that Bruce without knowing it will pave the way for the next generation and hopefully he stays strong through the negativity and that others can take that in perspective instead of the negativity!
To use your logic, and I use the term loosely, if one is disgusted by the thought of eating dog excrement and criticizes the practice of eating dog excrement, one must secretly desire to eat dog excrement. Yeah, it sounds like a really really stupid theory doesn’t it? That’s because, it is. People can be disgusted by the sexual practices of you gays, which have resulted in absolutely epic rates of STDs among you by the way, simply because they think what you do is disgusting. Somebody here, not sure who, posted stats that your HIV rate is actually 44 times higher than that of non gay men. I thought that had to be made up, I mean how could you get HIV 44 times more often? I mean maybe 2 or 3 or even 10 times but 44 times??? So I clicked on the CDC link and holy crap it was actually true. The Gay HIV rate is 44 times higher than for men who only have sex with women. HTF do you justify practicing a lifestyle that gives those who practice it HIV at a rate 44 times higher than those who don’t? That’s just insane. Isn’t that alone enough to justify a belief that there is something seriously wrong with that lifestyle? I think it is.
Again, not “my logic.” This is psychological professionals. Pretty much ALL psychological professionals, which really ought to be a clue for you, Bill, that you don’t know anything about anything.
But you know, this isn’t that hard to figure out. If I have a tumor or extra limb and my symptoms stem from unhappiness with said tumor or extra limb, treatment might be to remove the tumor or the extra limb, not “modifying my perception” to make me accept life with the thing that’s making me miserable.
And BTW, I’m disgusted by the behavior of people who post ignorant, bigoted comments on my blog, but you don’t see me stopping you.
Straight white males commit the almost all mass shootings, picking up guns and killing innocent children on a regular basis–and unlike HIV infections, the rate of mass shootings in the US is rising rapidly. Does that mean there’s something wrong and inherently unhealthy with that lifestyle?
If you’re telling someone not to call another a faggot at Shea Stadium in 2015, you are really are a faggot. Shea Stadium was torn down YEARS ago.
How out of character for a Red Sox fan!
…and yes, I’m aware. My story takes place in the past, you may remember.
My comment on the whole Kardashian television industry has always been that at least Bruce Jenner had to do something to become famous. I watched in awe as he won that decathalon, many years ago. As far as I’m concerned he can turn himself into a cream filled donut, and I’ll just say, Wow!
Did you really have the presence of mind to make the response above? It’s pretty well thought out and well expressed. Two things my responses to homophobic comments, and other stupidity, almost never are.
So, I guess we can wait for a similar lecture about Bristol Palin jokes? I don’t remember any columns defending Sarah Palin against ridicule or being called c*nt openly.
The difference is that Palin and her family are haters and they do make comments to hurt others and lie for personal gain.
Hey, as long as we’re assigning homework, why don’t you write 500 words on the logical fallacy of the unrelated argument?
Actually, if you’d expand your mental focus, you’d see it is related. Nasty, small minded comments like the one described by Anon are just as hateful and hurtful as any gay joke I’ve ever heard. Kindness and courtesy go a long way where everyone is concerned, don’t you think?
Thanks Jesse, but while the two may have similarities, they are vastly different within the context of the argument I’m making. I’m not suggesting courtesy and restraint are ever bad things, don’t get me wrong. But I won’t equate nasty jokes at the expense of a group as marginalized and vulnerable as the grans community with those directed at a specific individual, even if (like Bristol) she is a relative innocent.
I’m also very dubious of the sincerity of Anon’s argument–I suspect that, rather than endorsing and expanding my argument, the intention was to refute me by observing the alleged hypocrisy of picking on Palin and her kin. That argument is entirely invalid, for reasons already explained.
A transition like this cannot be easy for anyone. I can’t imagine what kind of a personal hell it must be for someone who is in the public eye and the three ring circus of reality TV.
I’ve read this three times today because I found it so moving. Thank you for sharing this story, so that the rest of us can pass it on. It’s a must-read, for sure.
Thank you, Courtney! I appreciate the kind words.
I feel the same. Thank you so much for writing this.
@author why did you not respond to Wc777? He makes a good point
I didn’t see where Wc777’s point really required my response. It’s his (or her) opinion, and he (or she) is entitled to it.
Why is it becoming more and more socially unacceptable to burst other peoples’ bubbles? A person’s sex and gender are two completely different things. Gender is masculine and feminine, not male and female. If Bruce Jenner takes a DNA test, it will show up that he is male, white, and with brown hair. He can go through every process in existence to change into a female, he can wear the prettiest dress and paint his nails the hottest pink, but such things do not make someone female and never will. Is it really that simple to become a woman just because you feel like it? I’m insulted as a woman that a male could think playing dress up makes you a woman. I’m so sick of people saying that they feel like a woman or feel like a man when they’re biologically the opposite. Sorry to burst your bubble, but a man can NEVER become a woman. He can wear lip gloss all he wants and paint his nails every colour in the spectrum, I don’t care at all, but it’s insulting to change the definition of what a woman is just so some confused individual can fit into it. I don’t care if people want to cosplay being a woman, just don’t make realists like me out to be haters just because we believe science and truth and not the confusion within a person’s mind that conflicts with their own DNA.
Hi Teaa. I’m going to explain it to you the way I explained it to my 8 and 6 year olds when I told them that their aunt was transgendered. I asked them how they knew they were girls. Was it because of their long hair? No, they said. They knew lots of girls with short hair and some boys with long. Was it because they had vaginas and not penises? Silly Mommy, they said. Girls have vaginas but their vagina doesn’t make them a girl. We talked about how it was just a feeling they had deep inside. That when they closed their eyes, they knew they were girls.
So I asked them, can you imagine what it would feel like if you knew you were a girl but everyone else thought you were a boy? If you were sure more than anything that people were wrong and that your boy body was one big mistake? Well that’s what happened to Aunt —–. She was accidentally born with a boy’s body! And I explained to my daughters how we all thought she was a boy until she got the courage to tell us the truth.
We talked for a while about how brave Aunt —– was to tell everyone the truth and they told me how happy they were for her that she doesn’t have to have such a hard life anymore. It’s hard living in the wrong body, after all.
So Teaa, if my first and third grade daughters can understand, I hope you can too.
Great reply 😀
Thanks for the patient and insightful comment.
Even as someone who has no significant relationship to those who are transgender or gay, I somehow feel very passionate about this subject. And then to read the comment Teaa made that someone is playing “dress up” because they “felt like it” completely hits the core. It’s the complete disregard for people in this world who are casted off for having a mental problem for the root of their identity. Micky says it perfectly in the example, that someone feels trapped in a body they are not supposed to be in. Can you imagine for a minute what that might feel like? It’s the same for those who are gay and made to feel like they shouldn’t be. Are the people in the world who are gay mentally confused too? That sure would make a lot of mental people wouldn’t it? Accepting this should be as simple as knowing how to breathe air by now. I do not fully understand it as I am not the one experiencing it, but as human beings can’t we be compassionate enough to accept that its not mental and its not a choice. Things are not always so black and white and we expect this to be too, when clearly maybe it has never been.
Ash, thanks. I wish “I do not fully understand it as I am not the one experiencing it, but as human beings can’t we be compassionate” were an idea that came more naturally to more people.
Teaa, first let me say that I understand this can be difficult to accept–I’ve had my share of difficulty as well. Gender is something we as a society define pretty rigidly.
Having said that, you are 100% wrong. Particularly when you claim to “believe science and truth,” which is either misinformed or hypocritical or both. Psychology is science, and psychologists are the first to make the distinction between biological sex (defined by genetics) and gender (defined by a host of factors including psychology, hormones, social factors, etc). Gender is enormously complicated, it’s fluid (meaning it can change and fluctuate over time) and it comes in many more than just two varieties.
If you are honestly interested in the science, I would encourage you to do some reading on transgender issues, particularly into recent research and into the historical and global interpretations of gender–you will find that our modern American idea, “male and female and never the twain shall meet” is not by any measure intrinsic to the human species.
On the other hand, if you choose to remain as closed-minded and rigid as you come across in your comment, that’s of course your prerogative. But I hope you won’t choose that path. People’s worldviews can be even more fluid than their genders. 🙂
The guy or soon to be gal can do whatever he chooses, his transformation has to be working because he’s already driving like a woman!
Really? That’s it? Someone is dead………that’s all you got? Imbecile.
In case anyone is wondering why certain comments remain here undeleted: You’re welcome to check the comment policy on my “ABOUT ME” page. Unless a comment is clearly spam or contains a threat of violence, I will not delete it.
Like Oscar Wilde, I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to make an ass of yourself.
I know some of you may find the imposition of religious doctrine offensive or triggering. My sympathies and apologies, but I hope you understand and respect my position.
Thanks for the lecture about not making gay jokes, etc.
Now don’t you think you owe Bruce Jenner and the Kardashian family an apology for referring to them as a ‘television freak show’?
Not that I’m a fan of the Kardashian tragedy but your comment is a little of the pot calling the kettle…
Putting your family on TV is a choice. Being transgendered or gay is not a choice.
I think “freak show” is a pretty apt description of the program, Wally, and not because I’m labeling any of the family members “freaks.”
It still isnt appropriate for you to put that label on the family, it throws out the whole point of this article, you yourself are doing the same exact thing!!!!
Anonymous, dear, he labelled the show, not the family.
The other day my 5 year old granddaughter and her little friend were approached by the sweetest 3 year old who said, “can I play?” The girls welcomed her and the 3 of those girls played with reckleas abandon. It was so beautiful and thought how nice it would be if people were to take on the behavior of these sweet, innocent, non-judgmental little girls.
We are all fighting some kind of storm – perhaps he is lucky because the sun is finally shining for him. God bless him.
Sorry man, this article didn’t cut it. Just because you make some friendly liberal comments about “acceptance” doesn’t mean that you can get away with misgendering Bruce Jenner at every turn (calling Jenner a “man” and using male pronouns multiple times. MISGENDERING IN THE MEDIA IS A FORM OF VIOLENCE AGAINST TRANS PEOPLE.
Slow your roll, Peter. I’m well aware of the etiquette here. I’m also aware (though perhaps you are not) that Bruce Jenner has not confirmed that he is transgender, has not publicly identified as anything but male, and has not requested the use of non-male pronouns. As soon as there’s some confirmation or indication from Bruce, I’ll use whatever name and/or pronouns Bruce desires. You’re getting way ahead of yourself.
You’re the one committing violence by making assumptions about Jenner’s identity. You clearly do not “know the etiquette”—the etiquette is NOT to use gendered language and pronouns when someone has not confirmed their gendered identity, you use gender neutral language and pronouns. It’s just like you should when meeting someone before they have shared with you their preferred gender pronouns—(or perhaps you don’t, perhaps you use “he” with all bearded folks before you ask or something, in which case, *shivers* *grr* But I won’t make assumptions). You shouldn’t “wait for confirmation” to stop using gendered pronouns about someone whose gender identity you and I do not yet know, in the wake of what we do know to be a transition of sorts (for example, although Jenner has not yet confirmed their personal identity, they have admitted to taking “female” hormones, re: The Washington Times).
We can agree that Jenner is going through some sort of transition, the details of which we don’t know, so I wish we could agree that we should not make assumptions about people’s identities during these times of unknown transition. But, as a trans person, I am used to having White gay&bi men tell me I am “getting ahead of myself,” or, worse yet, dominating spaces in the media to tell our stories, and to tell their readers’ straight White uncles how to talk about us. But I also see on your bio that you identify as “liberal,” so I can see why you think it’s your place to police conversations on gender, and not ours; I can see why you think it’s your place to tell trans people when they are “getting ahead of themselves” in arguments about gender; and I can see why you think it’s more important for you to speak for us, rather than step aside to liberate us.
Peter, I’m sorry if my treatment has offended you, and if it doesn’t meet your sense of what is appropriate in this circumstance. My read on this is such: Bruce Jenner has identified as male, and used male pronouns, for a very long time. Rumors and media reports indicate that Bruce is going through a gender transition, but Bruce has not even confirmed this. Bruce Jenner is the only person with authority to speak to Bruce Jenner’s gender identity, and so until Bruce Jenner gives some indication otherwise, I choose to continue using the pronouns Bruce Jenner has chosen and approved of until this time. If I’m wrong in doing so, then so be it, but I’ve given my explanation and it is clearly not about “violence,” it’s about giving this individual control of the narrative.
Again, I’m sorry if you find it insulting or offensive, as that’s certainly not my intention.
I think the best information, better than newspapers, or media, is the interview with his MOM!!!! Bruce has been taking hormones, so using gender neutral pronouns would have been the safest thing to do. . . . I dont know why everyone writes this and pretty 90 % of anything you read, even News broadcasts, are becoming such a media rating. Even if Bruce used gender specific in the PAST, the fact is that he IS going through something NOW, and need to respect the events happening NOW, not what he used in the past.
May I suggest the singular “they?” it’s mighty handy in cases like this where there is much confusion over pronoun use. Despite what Jenner may or may not have said, there is indeed confusion. A good deal of it maybe in their own mind, about whether or not they should be worthy of pronoun change– i say this from personal experience.
Your own argument is pertinent here; think of the innocent bystanders.
Thank you. I promise I will bear this in mind for the future. While I understand why some want the change here, I still an uneasy with the idea of letting anyone other than Bruce Jenner decide how Bruce Jenner should be addressed.
Sorry, but it is THAT Simple. You know you’re male via the penis. Period. Its not a feeling, unless you count me feeling my penis. Vagina is a 100% sign of a woman. And i mean biologically predetermined, not human molded. If youre “transgender” meaning you were born with only one set of reproductive organs and you change…YOU changed…not nature. If it was meant to be, why is it that gender reassignment does not ever result in fully working reproductive organs? There are manly women and womanly men, thats the beauty of life. No one is the same. Acceot what you are…to me gender reassignment only stems from sex or biologic necessity when you have been given more than the correct amount of sexual organs.
in fact, you are wrong! identifying as another gender or as bigender, agender, gender neutral, etc is scientifically proven to be something that the human brain can naturally do; “There is also evidence, albeit clinical, for a role of testosterone in the sexual differentiation of the human brain, in particular in inducing male gender role behavior and heterosexual orientation.” – Julie Baker, Focus on Sexuality Research, 2014″
“Gender-dependent differentiation of the brain has been detected at every level of organization–morphological, neurochemical, and functional–and has been shown to be primarily controlled by sex differences in gonadal steroid hormone levels during perinatal development.” Chung and Wilson, European Journal of Physiology, 2013
so you see, your argument that just some skin and nerves and sex organs define the chemicals and hormones in the brain and rest of the body is incorrect and that being trans is a choice, and has been disproved, debunked and disarmed time and time again.
Great response, Anonymous.
Infinitegrasp has anything but an infinite grasp on this issue. Fortunately life is not all black and white. It’s shades of grey. That’s what makes it interesting.
your comment is automatically irrelevant due to “albeit clinical” being in the quote
Secondly, putting your family on TV is a choice. Gender reassignment is a choice. You have to draw the line somewhere…Where do you draw the line on feelings and thoughts only the one thinking will ever know?
i think its pretty cool that the writer responds to a lot of comments on here. other writers dont do that on their articles.too bad hes a fag though…. and by fag i dont mean gay. “Gay”…”how else am i supposed to describe a fanny pack” – Nick Swardson
they are jokes just like skit comedies poke fun at race but oh no make fun of gays! ahhhh outcry…. thats a joke in itself. get a sense of humor gays please! even if the jokes come from someone who truley is against your lifestyle choices, its the same way with people who hated blacks and made jokes. sure they were ignorant but nowaday those jokes are all in good fun… Listen to comedian Eddie Griffin talk about black jokes… thats the same that will happen with all these gay jokes. get over it, they are funny. and laughter is the best medicine for any of us gay straight bi whatever else there is. get in on the jokes and laugh at yourself. my personal opinion… stop caring! meaning, quit being so sensitive!
Chris, Thank you for being such a light and voice for so many. What you speak of goes far beyond orientation, or gender identity. Just in this post alone it is obvious we have haters on this planet. Those who have been taught ways to elevate their perspective of who they are by diminishing others. We see this in so many forms these days. Hate crime, riots, vandalism… all in the name of being right or better than or leaving their mark.
I think of how many people’s lives are impacted with just one act of unconscionable judgement and action and the ripple it leaves through humanity.
Just the Bruce Jenner event alone. His recent accident and the death of one of the drivers in that accident. Applying stress, paparazzi following him, and lord knows what else created an energy that lead to a tragic accident, that lead to a fatality, that now has impacted lives exponentially. One word, one action is simply not one act.
Great article. Great advice. The response from the individual who shared her story of abandonment and suffering after her husband left their family to “find happiness” underscores, in my humble opinion, exactly how our misunderstanding as a society of sexual identity/gender identity issues can have harmful “trickle-down” effects on so many. I think abandoning one’s emotional and financial obligations for one’s children is inexcusable and tragic no matter the gender/sexual identity of the parent. It does, in this case though, illustrate how individuals who struggle with the pressure to “fit” in with societal norms may choose a lifestyle they believe to be acceptable to “the rest of us” with unfortunate consequences. In this case, and others, the outcome being a hurting ex-spouse and damaged kids. There are many reasons to enter in to a heterosexual marriage. The pressure to “fit in” should not be one of them. I pray for the day when all men and women can be true to who they are in heart and mind and live as the unique individual they were created to be. Our world would be that much happier a place if our transgendered/homosexual brothers and sisters could be safe following their hearts in matters of love just like the rest of us.
Can we for one second stop and realize that Bruce Jenner is a human being! Yes Bruce Jenner is a millionaire yes Bruce Jenner is on TV, but Bruce still has emotions. I know this person has put themselves out there for the world to comment on every move they make. It was their choice no body forced them, but they are still human. Just because they are a millionaire does not mean they cannot be depressed or take offense to things people say. Even if it comes from people they have never met before. Why is it that we think it is okay to pass judgment or ridicule someone for a choice they are making. (I am well aware that this person has put themselves in the lime light. And that everyone is entitled to their own opinions) I think that we as other human beings should think before we speak or write our opinions. How would I feel. If this person was standing here right in front of me what would I say. Everyone is pretty tough sitting behind their computer screen. My own opinion is this : I personally don’t know Bruce Jenner. I have never sat down with Bruce Jenner and had a conversation regarding this persons life. Therefore I have know idea what is happening in their life to form any sort of opinion on the matter. The only things I know forsure are that we as a society should know after this past year that all the money in the world cannot make you happy or fix all of your problems. How many millionaires have passed away last past year?
Also we should clean our own backyard before passing judgment on someone else’s.
Yes, I hope people can have more compassion for others. It is too easy to pass judgement.
What kind of screwed up gay joke is that clean your backyard before passing on judgement.
ain’t that America?
The most backward thinking homophobic, racist, and bigoted country on the planet.
That’s just not even true… any islamic country is much more of all of those things.
Oh come on…really? Worse than the middle east where women have to cover their faces, teenage girls get shot in the head for wanting to go to school, people are imprisoned for wanted to choose their own religion and journalists are beheaded for the sport of it? Grow up you simpleton.
Yeah, um, Bruce Jenner would be burned alive if he were a Muslim living in a predominantly Muslim country. And that whole women covering their faces and girls getting shot for wanting to go to school and people being imprisoned for not being Muslim, yeah, that happens also. It’s an absolute fact that hard core Muslims are insecure, ignorant males that follow Islam to oppress their women and keep them down. Horrible religion and lifestyle.
Why is it when someone either disagrees about something or expresses there opinion whether you agree or not they are called bigots or racist or homophobic…Is that the best you can do because you have no argument or is that your racist tactic to silence some one else’s opinion…I don’t agree with any kind of homosexuality but I am not racist nor am I homophobic. .I also think changing ones sex is disgusting and I believe it’s morally wrong..and it’s your problem not mine as most gays loke to try and do…make my beliefs a problem which its not..You can do whatever the law allows but I don’t have to agree nor like it..I also have the right to pick and choose whom ever I prefer to be friends with so if I choose not to associate with gays that doesn’t make me anything but someone who chooses not to associate with people who I believe has a mental problem. I also don’t hang with drunks either what does that make me ?
…a person who doesn’t understand the definitions of words?
Personally, I believe homosexuality in any capacity stems from a form of mental illness. Just like any other mental illness, it’s just the way these folks were wired.
Personally I think you sound mentally ill.
And your the idiot Barb. Not Greg.
well said Barb you are not the idiot here .
Homosexuality was declassified as a mental illness in 1973 by the American Psychiatric Association, 1975 by the American Psychological Association and in 1990 by the World Health Organization. Exactly what decade are you living in?
Better get some ice for that BURN. Update yourself with the newest edition of the DSM, its on either 4 or 5. Also to russ: ‘you’re’
This is one of the gayest things I’ve ever read.
I fully support the rights of people to make their own choices about identity and to be safe from hate-filled opposition. But I’m more concerned about his driving skills–a person died in that car crash!!!!
He didn’t cause the crash. He was rear ended.
I am so glad that I read your article and that I tookthe time to read the comments too. I think we all need to respect Bruce Jenner and he gender issues and his privacy too. Your views are certainly worth sharing and your understanding is worth listening to and heeding. I know one transgender person who also acted on the inner conflict later in life and I admire her so much and can only imagine the years of turmoil she dealt with before coming out. Be it sexual orientation, gender transformation or any other personal situation we all should realize how hurtful words can be and be accountable for our actions and words too. It saddens me to hear someone speak in the name of God like they have the personal right to judge another. Clearly they have decided to pay no . attention to whatJesus tells in the New Testament regarding how we should treat each other and who is responsible for judging another person too. They know as little about what Jesus would do as they know about GLBT people and they preach this venom in the name of God…so sad. And they post as anonymous too. Check out the “New Law…love God with your heart and mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself.” No ridicule or judging mentioned there! Thanks again for bringing this topic to our attention and I would be very proud to call Bruce Jenner my friend and you too.
Can you tell this is my first comment? If I rambled please forgive me…Thx
I think that being hateful is one thing but making a joke is another. I am LGBT as well and we’ve always had a sense of humor in dealing with what we go through. Your uncle was raised in a different time and is making the changes he needs to make and was even man enough to apologize. So what if it was because of other family members HE personally apologized. Let’s allow people to grow and evolve the same way we want others to be patient with us.
You’re quite a FAGGOT yourself, aren’t you? And yes, I’m using “that term” because I am “homophobic.” Yes, that’s right, I’m “homophobic”……VERY “homophobic.” So, FAGGOT, just don’t get around me, okay? Just stay away. Far, FAR away.
Man, aren’t you a cool, tough rebel! Watch out for this guy!
Anybody who is that outwardly homophobic is typically a closeted homosexual themselves. If you were secure in your own sexuality, it wouldn’t matter who you’re around. This is 2015, grow the Fuck Up ! I’m sure you’re a racist at the very least as well. I also bet you own a gun. Do the world a favor, put the gun in your mouth a pull the trigger. The world won’t miss a simpleton like yourself…
Anon II, I’m uncomfortable with you encouraging suicide on my site, and I’m not fond of gun violence. I’m not editing or deleting your comment, but I’m asking you to please do so. Get as angry and mean as you like, but I’d appreciate if you draw the line at violence. Thanks.
That escalated quickly…
Right off the bat you’ve come off ignorant. I think you’re trying to write a piece of acceptance, but you spend the first half of it complaining about how shitty someone else is. Princess, you’re not a shining gem of humanity either. One day I hope you do something shitty, and i hope that you’re apology isn’t accepted on the grounds that they think you’re obviously incapable of making an apology.
I’m not defending anyone. I’m just saying that if you want to write a piece about not being mean to those with different viewpoints, you should not be mean to those with different viewpoints.
Agreed! The world is in chaos & these people are worred about someone’s dwellings being hurt over some jokes. Get over yourselves already
And yet you choose to begin this article with your OWN hatred towards someone else… someone who has already asked your forgiveness no less. You ask others not to judge, and yet you instantly judged this person by assuming their apology was not sincere… and then you go a step further and publicly smear them. Is there perhaps someone YOU might be hurting who could read YOUR words? Hatred is hatred… no matter who it is directed at. Because you wanted to make a case in favor of a gay/transgender lifestyle, you justified doing the very thing you asked others not to do. It’s called a double standard. It’s the very thing that keeps hate and racism and bigotry stirred up. How ’bout we love EVERYbody…not just the people you deem worthy because of their lifestyle?
You aren’t the first person to allege this point, and so far I’ve avoided responding to it, but what the hell.
For starters, you’ve completely missed my point. Nowhere in here am I saying we should “love everyone” or that criticizing other people is wrong. You’re not the only person to read that into my point, but it’s not in there. My point was that people should consider the consequences of their behavior, and think twice before making a joke they may see as harmless, but may do more harm than expected.
Secondly: It’s not “hate” to make observations about a specific person’s specific conduct. If a person behaves as a shitbag, consistently, then it’s fair to call that person a shitbag. If you can’t see the distinction between (a) calling out a single person based on a clear pattern of conduct, and (b) mocking a person based on his or her membership in a larger group of people (ie, transgender people) then you’re not looking very hard.
Thirdly: If we apply my original point (consider the impact of your words on innocent bystanders) then I’d not only stand by calling out my shitbag relative, I’d double down. I WANT people to see that homophobia and transphobia will get a person called out and “publicly smeared.” If a homophobic or transphobic child or passerby is reading my post, I hope they will get the message that their unjustified hatred is unacceptable, and they should probably change if they want to be accepted in modern society. Which leads me to:
Fourtly: Actions have consequences, and I don’t believe in “loving everybody.” I don’t believe in prejudice or discrimination, but treating a person appropriately to that person’s conduct? A-OK. You, and other people, seem to operate under the impression that actions should have no consequences, that everyone should be loved no matter what, and that “asking for forgiveness” is an automatic pass. You seem to miss the ASKING part of asking for forgiveness–the fact that you are requesting something from another person, and that person is under no obligation to give it to you. No one is entitled to forgiveness just for asking, especially not after a decades-long pattern of being a total shitbag.
So no, treating a person appropriately to their conduct is not “hatred”, there is no double-standard here, and acting like a prejudiced bigoted shitbag is not a “lifestyle.”
Chris, I just have to ask your reasoning behind your second point. To me it makes no sense that you can hate an individual but not a group of individuals that are doing the same thing. I am a hater if I’m being honest. It saddens me to see homosexual behavior so glorified and promoted on every tv show. I had to explain to my 6, 7, 8, and now 9 year old daughter that some people are wired differently than most and don’t do natural things. It annoys me when flamers get tv time. They are like .001% (not a factual number just a guess) of the population and yet their opinions and attitudes are voiced yet bigger chunks of the population (let’s say homeless, mentally ill, or the people that pick up our nasty ass garbage) remain silent. I don’t mind being in the company of my sister and her girlfriend, but broadcasting it throughout the world seems rediculous to me.
Thank you for this post. It was well written, poignant, significant, and I hope it reaches many, many readers.
I agree with you Chris that we should never insult a person who is gay, transgender or transexual because they are human beings like us made in the image and likeness of God. We should treat them in the same way we would like to be treated, however I don’t believe we should be afraid from engaging in a conversation where we can express what the bible says of this lifestyle which is intrinsically evil and disordered in the eyes of God. The bible clearly states that this lifestyle is an abomination in his eyes.
Their mentally ill faggotts that are weak minded.. Hollywood promotes the lifestyle.. The Ellen’s Rosie’s anderson cooper it a queers dream…. They promote their lifestyle to weak minds.. I ain’t got anything against them… God will cut them down
Amen brother… Hope they burn with the muslims
This is just another liberal media fueled Public Service, Don’t hurt the feelings of our chosen anointed ones. But it’s ok to talk shit about anyone who is White, Rich, Straight, or Christian.
Got Aids Yet
So he’s a cocksucker… living with that trash would fuck up anyone
Fags are fags. PERIOD. SUCK IT UP, SUCK IT GOOD! Don’t like it, go straight.
Paraphrasing Abraham Lincoln: It’s likely better to keep silent and be thought an idiot than post a comment and remove all doubt.
How many of these ignorant, overtly bigoted comments are planted to create the image of the bigot itself?
A man as old as Bruce Jenner getting his cock cut off is rather laughable… Jamie Fox’s joke was spot on! I laughed my arse off! I bet lots of other men did too! As for the rest, who gives a shit!
Haha thank you couldnt have said it better haha.
If u like suckin dudes off and getting tagged in the ass and have no problem making that happen. Why would u even want a sex change? Why would u want to mutilate ur bodylike that and then most still look like freak shows. Whats the purpose to try to fool straight guys? Because that is whack and u deserve whatever u get.
Thank u. So true. If u talk bad on gays u are human scum but say all u want about christians and these same ppl who say dont hurt gays feelings will laugh it up when talking shit about christians or whites.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
If you kids want to come in here and say ugly, offensive things to make your dicks seem big, you’re free to do that–my support of free expression and all that. But please don’t demean yourselves by saying something as foundless and stupid as “Christians are persecuted and face discrimination.” You’ve got to draw the line somewhere.
Why should anyone respect his privacy when he puts himself in the public eye for personal gain. I could give a dam about this guy and his mental issues. I dont even watch the show but if he chooses to be on that show and puts all his business out for all to see to make a buck, then he deserves it all. And who gives a dam about a joke anyways. Im so sick of whiny ass ppl like on that show they hold nothing back they make fun of all groups and ppl but yet we gotta respect the gays and not offend them. Pis off
And gays are? Actually in the middle east christians are slaughtered. Christians are also the butt of sooooo many jokes in the media. How are gays persecuted today in anerica please tell me. What because on some comedy show some guy made fun of some dip shit who up and has a sex change at like 55 and looks like a complete jackass. So thats what persecution and oppression is hu? Dam i guess all those ppl being murdered and slaughtered better learn thier place.
I don’t generally add my thoughts on blog posts, especially when there’s a thread as long as the one found here, but I thought I’d switch it up today. That’s because the first twenty or so comments I spotted were pretty negative. Well, make that VERY negative, in a ridiculously closeminded way. I actually had to stop reading them at that point, because I don’t respond very well to such blatant ignorance.
Which is why I will only say this…
Thank you for your post, for sharing your thoughts with us. I can definitely see how genuinely kind and compassionate you are.
Sometimes it may be difficult to see a seemingly “harmless joke” for what it really is, or to realize it’s only humorous at the expense of others- even (and especially!!) uninvolved others.
But I DO know that I will definitely be watching out for things that, before today, I might not have even thought twice about sharing or reposting. Thank you for opening my eyes!
ALSO, I want to apologize for any grammatical errors found above- I’m usually a perfectionist in that area, but I’m in a wee bit of a rush this morning. Thanks again for posting!
Thanks for the reply, Stephie! You should reply to what you read more often–it’s always nice for writers to hear from people who are touched by their work, and as you say it counterbalances the people who equate cruelty and general awfulness with power or authority. 😉
Foundless and stupid? Re-read that crapulous blather you’ve been spewing. There is a lot more truth to the persecution of Christians, whether you can bring yourself to admit it or not.
Biology ends up trumping ‘feelings’ in the end. It’s amazing that with all the discoveries about anatomy and the brain over centuries, human beings will immediately speak in hush hush tones about people wanting to change their sex, as if they’re sacred and theirs is some sort of “special” malfunction that has to be coddled rather than cured. And its cure is mutilating a perfectly functioning body for the sake of aesthetic! For what other godawful mental disease is THAT the cure?! What doctor says in so many words “ok so you want to take a perfectly functioning penis and chop it off and have a facsimile of a working body part of the other sex as a replacement. And you’re doing this because your brain is telling you to do it?” Makes perfect sense, the Hippocratic Oath be damned!!
Thanks very much for sharing this viewpoint. It’s certainly not the only reason people should refrain from joking about something so intensely personal and serious, but it is another reason, and one that most probably don’t consider.
I enjoyed reading until I made my way down to the truly abhorrent comments. I hate myself for wading into it, but can’t help it, so here goes:
– No one is saying it’s okay to persecute Christians.
– Christians are not being persecuted in America.
– Christians do face violence and persecution in some parts of the world. That is not okay.
– Members of the LGBT community also face violence and persecution in those same parts of the world. That is not okay.
– Most Christians are good people. If you hate those who are different than you, if you wish someone harm because they are different than you, then you are not a Christian.
– It’s odd to read someone argue that transgender people are not the subject of bigotry, while that person uses hate-speech to make his argument.
– Work on yourself.
– Anonymous comments are the weapon of choice for cowards. If you wouldn’t read your comment to your mother or your child, don’t post it. And if you do, show the courage of your convictions and put your name on it.
It’s differently! It’s difficult to be trained differently. Thanks. Otherwise I appreciate what you are saying. It’s hard for people who have an attachment to their image of Bruce Jenner as an accomplished male athlete. I do not hold an attachment to the Kardashian version of him or really just about anything since he had his first nose job. I don’t think he is easily going to be made happy through a change in his appearance. It’s sort of heartbreaking.
Embarrassed. I misread. I’m a terrible person. Ignore everything until I say ” I appreciate what you are saying. It’s hard for people who have an attachment to their image of Bruce Jenner as an accomplished male athlete. I do not hold an attachment to the Kardashian version of him or really just about anything since he had his first nose job. I don’t think he is easily going to be made happy through a change in his appearance. It’s sort of heartbreaking.
Keep it in the closet.
Dicks don’t belong in men’s asses. Dicks belong is ladies pussies. I’m sorry if I’m blunt but this is the truth. Why are you fucking with the truth? And the natural balance? Your about as bad as Hitler in this aspect since you want to hide the truth from human eyes. I don’t see a female elephant humping another female elephant or a male elephant fucking another male elephant? natural balance Sir.
Well, at least you were so eloquent about it…
The problem and it is a problem is societies approval of things which go against biological norm. A male more in touch with his feelings or being a little effeminate gets the idea that he should change his gender. Really. I ask does anyone really think about what we are doing. Even if you take God out of the equation what is being done is wrong. We live in this farse of a world that believes just because you can I have to approve of your actions that will be our downfall.
Ed, no one cares about your approval. The only question is whether YOU choose to harm people through YOUR actions.
Oh and before I forget, I do tell my children what is right and wrong. Even when others will rage against that truth and proclaim their own my kids know the truth.
How does Bruce know he feels like a woman? Isn’t it impossible to feel like a woman if you are a male? He doesn’t have the natural hormones in his body which help foster our emotional feelings (he’s been taking those purposely) so how does he feel like a woman? How does he know what it feels like to be a woman, he isn’t one. I believe he is confused as are all transgenders, possible underlying mental illness with roots in childhood. I don’t see lines of women queuing up to do this.
Bullshit, he’s making money from reality TV so its not private and secondly he just done an interview with Diane Sawyer……
He wins the gold medal in being a crazy fruit.
Do us all a favor and educate yourself.
Closets are for clothes
But elephants do engage in homosexual behavior lol. As do lions, various species of monkeys, dolphins, and dogs
In fact there are THOUSANDS of animals species that have been observed engaging in same-sex coupling, some routinely. It’s quite natural. There’s only one species that engages in homophobia, though: Humans.
There are just as many transgender men as there are trans women. For instance, Chaz Bono. You state that it’s impossible to feel that way, because you yourself have never experienced it. And its not so much the feeling of “being a woman”, its the feeling of not being male. You don’t feel right. Your body doesn’t feel like it’s attached to your mind and soul. So then you talk to other people, including therapists, who by the way removed Gender Identity Disorder as a real thing a few years ago and recognized being trans and having gender dysphoria not as a mental disorder, but something that can coincide with perfect mental health. It’s not a choice. My partner is trans, and I can tell you, she did not choose this, any different than either of us chose to be pansexual. Her parents have sat her down and told her if she ever came out as gay or anything else, they would disown her and cut her off from the family. If she could have chosen, she wouldn’t have picked the lifestyle that when she decides to tell them, she will lose contact with her parents. The mental disorder some trans people have is generally depression or anxiety, which typically forms after transition begins, due to fear, confusion, and the comments of unsupportive assholes like you. But post-transition, whether they have elective surgeries, go on hormone replacement therapy, or simply come to terms with who they are, they’re so much happier, because suddenly all the feelings of being “wrong” are gone. They feel like they’re who they’re supposed to be. Look at women like Laverne Cox and Carmen Carrera. Laverne was horribly depressed, contemplating suicide, and a whole slew of other things. Now she’s a well-respected public speaker, an actress, and one of “Time’s Most Beautiful Women” for the year. Carmen was in a similar situation and is now on the track to become the first trans Victoria’s Secret Model.
Nobody brought up intercourse but you. Jenner commented in her interview that she feels rather repulsed by sex anyways, and believes she may identify as asexual, at least during transition. Trans people have existed since the cave men, and they were a lot more accepting back then. The lack of basic human decency in these things is a societal error that you are contributing to. Also, homosexuality exists in almost every species of mammal, and all species of insect. In fact spiders are so committed to sex that they will mate with every spider of the same species they see, just in case. But transition is not about being able to have sex. Its about being able to feel that you are in the correct body.
Are you fucking retarded? Christians aren’t persecuted? What the fucking hell is wrong with you??? Have you not been reading about Isis? And all the religious persecution going on around the world? Or were you too busy getting butthurt and offended over your recent shitty story you write about getting fucked in the ass by a big black guy or reading jokes about motherfucking Bruce Jenner who literally did this for the money. It’s a publicity stunt dipshit, read about it. Celebrities sell their privacy for money, like how soldiers sell their rights to protect your bitch ass. I really hope you have the two cents to realize how much of a dipshit you made yourself look with this article.
Bruce has always been a wonderful role model and athlete. why cant this man do what he has to do to feel better about him/herself.I admire Bruce for being strong enough to come out to the world at this age. Good luck Bruce in what ever you do.
Absolutely, this guy is a joke
This reminds me of a great quote by Brian Burke on his son coming out. It’s about living your life so that you don’t have to take everything back:
“Well, I get these very painful letters and the best thing about my son coming out was that I didn’t have to take anything back. And that’s what I tell parents, is, there is a chance, you know… you talk to statisticians, 10 percent, 15 percent, whatever it is, people who are born gay. And, there’s a chance that your child is going to be gay, so, in our house, everything was about acceptance. no racial humour tolerated, no jokes about gay people, no jokes about handicapped people, it was all, everyone is worth your time, everyone has dignity, everyone deserves your respect. And so, when my son said, dad, I’m gay, the best thing was, I said Well, I don’t have to take anything back. I don’t have to apologize for anything, I don’t have to rebuild any bridge, and that’s what I tell parents and to the kids who are battling with coming out, it does get better, there is a support group, and you’re entitled to live your life, so, that’s what you need to do, that push, then, there are people who care about you.”
It’s so sad our society (World) had become so warped morally it fosters this type of mental illness. The Gaystopos of the world are using well known brainwashing techniques that originated in China. They use phrases like hate and phobia to bash people into submission in a politically correct society. The Bible tells us to hate. Hate is not alway a bad thing. It tells us to hate what is bad. You speak of evil in your post, but the true evil is promoting “Gay is Ok” thinking. It is immoral behaviour that will lead to death. That is why true christians do not support it or those whose practice that life style. I do not support disrespecting the choices people make whether I approve of them or not. I have worked with several gay people and I always show them the dignity and respect any person deserves. The thing that bothers me is that the Gay Community keeps telling me what to think and how to feel and if I don’t fall in line I am and evil hater. I believe people are free moral agents and have the right to choose how they live their life. If you expect me to respect your choice then you need to respect my decision to peacefully disagree. The real haters are the Gay Community. They are on a full Homophile bashing crusade.
[From Chris: Again, this comment is clearly offensive, but I’m not going to delete it because, rife as it is with childish slang, it’s attempting to articulate something like a point of view. If you are offended as a reader, I recommend responding to Lonnie, but I’m not erasing it.]
I would agree with you if you would add that people like Bruce Jenner who make fun of the physical appearance of others – which he most certainly did in that interview when talking about the guy who gained weight – should also refrain from making their own obnoxious boasts/jokes. It’s easy to make fun of anyone. Those who want to seem above it all should truly be above it all or should stop judging what anyone else says. Mr. Keelty, have you mocked anyone’s appearance before? Maybe you haven’t, but if you have, you’re a hypocrite. It’s not just gender confused young people who need positive outlooks. So do the “fat kids”, many of whom are suicidal.
You make a great point, Liz. I agree that everyone, Bruce Jenner and myself included, can and should think twice about who they might be harming with their words. For what it’s worth, I think when a person is opening up the way Jenner did, and experiencing that kind of emotional vulnerability, it can be harder to remember others and mind phrasing. But your point is valid nonetheless.
But we’re all going to mess up sometimes too, and I don’t think that makes us hypocritical–we’re all human, we all make mistakes. The point is that we think about it and that we try. I’ll point out one more time that I wasn’t so much saying “nobody should ever make such a joke, ever” so much as saying “think about the unseen consequences of what jokes you choose to make.”
Thanks for your insightful point, though.
[Comment deleted for being offensive and not contributing anything meaningful to the conversation]
Thank you for reading my post and taking it seriously. I will retract the hypocritical point because, as you point out, we are indeed all human and make mistakes.
First, the number is about equal MtoF as FtoM. Also there is MRI studies that show that the brain structure of Trans people resemble the brain of the gender they feel they are. Also, most know by 3-5 years old and learn quickly to hide it. Men have Estrogen in there systems and Women have Testosterone but at different levels. There are not just the 2— XX and XY but 6 different combinations identified. The researchers looking for the cause site erratic hormone levels in the womb. This is not a simple whim, this is not about cross-dressing or sex of any kind. It’s about a birth defect that effects about 1 million Americans or more from all walks of life.
LonnieJ; Spoken like a true organized religion zealot! Enjoy your cookie cutter/vanilla time on this dirtball but, please don’t lecture from the bigot pulpit.
No he isn’t. He is till attracted to women. But nice going on the name-calling. smh…
My comment above was actually a reply to someone else’s comment, but it posted in the wrong place. He or she called Bruce a ‘cocksucker’ (nice, huh?). This was my response.
I completely agree with you , well said !!!!!
wow – and eat out that mouth?
About your article its different when they are lesbians. They arent disturbing unlike gays disturbing and disgusting no offense its just not a beautiful thing to look at,its very disturbing
Yes you are right. I is disturbing. What I don’t like is when they call all of us bigots who understand their pain, but realize that it is a perversion of what is wholesome and good. They even want to call it marriage, God defines marriage, don’t reinvent the word, your shaking your fist and God and trying to shove it down our throats. I truly disagree with the homosexual lifestyle, and it’s perversion, if they wanted to get along truly they would call it something else. A husband requires a wife, and a wife requires a husband. Has this World gone mad??? Yes think it has.. total dysfunction
No, you are the bigot. So if I am having sex with a horse you going to say that is sick, and I agree, but you are a hypocrite if you do. Who in the hell said YOU get to make the standard for what is acceptable and normal? YOU HAVE NO STANDARD. You hypocrite, your just trying to force your I’m way. I make a lot of mistakes, I know I do, and I have struggled with a lot of things that have caused me pain, but I don’t give up, and I keep my standard no matter how hard it is. I REALIZE WHO GOD IS. He Loves us all, but he still hates the sin, and being predisposed to sin NO ONE can say “but God made me this way.” We are all made that way, because sin entered the world we all suffer from that disease, and you can bury your head in the sand and not get they antidote if you want. But I’m gonna call a spade a spade, and you can hurl your bigot remarks at me all you want, cause I KNOW I am n bigot, and your name calling will not cause me to be afraid to accept the truth. I can’t stand it when people are made tools of satan; in that they try and coax people into destructive ways through making themselves out to be the ones who really care for those who are destroying themselves spiritually. If the blind lead the blind they will both fall into the ditch. Below is good a good link to show the love of God and his family, as they love the diseased, and hate the disease.
[From Chris: I’m leaving this comment intact because, while the view expressed is offensive, it’s also sincerely intended to contribute something to the conversation. I won’t delete it just because I disagree with it. However I will NOT allow a link to the cruel torture and fraud that is “ex-gay” or “reparative” therapy to exist on my site.]
You’re trying to use logic with a homosexual. I do it myself so believe me I know, it will fail. American gays have managed to achieve and HIV rate here in the USA 44 times higher than hetero men. 20% of them are infected with HIV. They are 4% of the population and are 59% of all HIV cases. Based on this, a rational, logical person would quickly conclude that their lifestyle is quite unhealthy and harmful not only to them but to society at large. They of course conclude exactly the opposite. In their minds they are living a completely normal healthy lifestyle despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. They do this because they simply are not logical. Their brains for whatever reason simply do not work correctly. There is no other explanation for the defense of a lifestyle which brings so much completely unnecessary disease and death.
Yes, you are the bigot. Your comment relies on equating human intimacy and emotion with bestiality, and on appeal to a made up magical deity who just so happens to make rules that enforce all your own prejudices. Then you link to a web site for a brainwashing cult that harms people irrevocably. You should reconsider your worldview before you seriously hurt someone.
Your perception that homosexuality is more normal or less disgusting than bestiality is no more valid than someone who’s perception in exactly the opposite. You are just biased and place a higher value on your own perception. They are both equally disgusting to me. People who practice behaviors well outside the mainstream from homosexuality to pedophilia to serial killing all feel it’s normal because they are BIASED toward their own preferences.
No one cares what is disgusting to you, Ritchie. Your opinion is entirely irrelevant and unimportant.
Also I would really like to know why your site keeps trying to obtain permission to download a file onto my computer.
I don’t know what you’re talking about, but I’ve viewed my site on about 9 different devices and can’t replicate your complaint, so I think it’s something on your computer.
Interesting how the medical world considers those with gender dysphoria mentally ill. What happens when a person who has depression is discovered? We try to cure their depression right? So we let those with gender dysphoria go instead of trying to bring them back to normal…i’m tired of people making excuses for homosexuals and transgenders. They’re not okay, they’re not normal people. I’ve met them, interacted with them, and every time I get the feeling something’s off. I go with these intuitions often and it keeps me from getting robbed and attacked when i’m out and about.
There’s a critical error in your medical understanding here, Tyler. Gender reassignment IS the treatment for gender dysphoria. To follow your analogy, denying gender reassignment would be to gender dysphoria as denying medication and telling someone to “cheer up!” would be to depression.
But I suspect you’re not really concerned about medical issues, and I expect a follow-up comment that will confirm my suspicions.
As to your “feeling that something’s off,” I think you’re right. But that something is a problem with you, not other people.
You logic here is virtually non-existent. Gender reassignment as a “treatment” for gender dysphoria is the same as telling a schizophrenic who hears voices that the voices are in fact real and that he should do whatever they say. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness which manifests as a false perception regarding ones own gender in ones brain, This is no different than hearing voices which are not actually there. Gender reassignment is nothing more than exacerbating a mental illness by trying, generally in vain, to make the person’s appearance conform to the perception their mental illness causes them to have. Jenner’s mental illness makes him think he’s a woman. He’s not a woman and after Christ only knows how much money spent he simply looks and sounds like a man dressed as a woman.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. Gender Dysphoria is a perception in a person’s brain that is inconsistent with reality. The reality in this case is that a person is born genetically male or genetically female. Treatment would be bringing the persons perception into consistency with reality. What you propose is exactly the opposite and is not “treatment” but rather just an attempt to reenforce the persons distorted and false perception by trying to twist reality to fit it. Using your analogy that is like telling a depressed person that they should be depressed and that their brain’s perception is in fact correct. Treating a person with depression to change their perception would in fact be analogous to treating a person with Gender Dysphoria to make their perception of their gender conform to what their gender genetically is. Suggesting that trying to change reality to fit a distorted and false perception is “treatment” is ridiculous.
Bill, are a psychologist? Psychiatrist? Do you have any clinical qualification to speak to prescribed treatments for gender dysphoria? Because the American Psychological Association recommends hormone therapy and gender reassignment, among other treatments. So do the NHS, the Canadian Psychological Association, and pretty much all other modern psychological experts. So, Bill, you’re the one who’s wrong. You might want to actually do some research and learn something about a subject like psychology before you presume to lecture about it and spread false information.
[Comment deleted as abusive. The commenter started by saying that Jenner’s transition was just for attention, and then went on to incorrectly use the term “pedophile.”]
Pedophile?? I mean you’re entitled to your opinions, no matter how moronic, but at some point you have to justify an accusation if anything you say is to be taken seriously.
Yeah there’s no evidence he’s a pedophile, just a killer after taking the life of that poor woman he rear ended in his overloaded Escalade. Now the KILLER refuses to even take civil responsibility for his actions and is trying to get out of paying damages to the family of the woman he killed. That alone makes him a scumbag of the highest order. Funny you mention nothing about that when you congratulate him on giving in to his mental illness. You repeatedly criticize multiple posters here for making “hateful” etc comments but put a mentally ill individual who KILLED A WOMAN on a pedestal. It would take a chainsaw to cut through your hypocrisy. All I can say is you must be pretty desperate for a hero if this mentally ill seriously gender confused individual who KILLED A WOMAN, is what suffices.
[Comment deleted. Of note, the commenter included a threat the author.]
Many (if not most) people do not believe that gender dysphoria is an actual medical condition. How can you expect them to acknowledge gender reassignment as treatment if they do not believe in the problem?
Whether or not people “believe” in it is irrelevant. To quote John Oliver, “You don’t need people’s opinion on a fact. You might as well have a poll asking, ‘Which number is bigger, 15 or 5?’ Or, ‘Do owls exist?’ Or, ‘Are there hats?”
As with global warming and evolution, the only opinions that matter on this are those of qualified, informed experts. Last I checked, gender dysphoria was in the DSM. Therefore it is an actual medical condition, and the opinion of anyone who says otherwise is completely irrelevant.
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness which is why it is in the DSM. Treating this mental illness by pretending the perception in one’s mentally ill brain is correct and providing gender reassignment is about the same as treating a schizophrenic who hears voices by agreeing with them that the voices are real and that they should do what said voices say. Sorry to break this to you, but, if someone suffers from a MENTAL ILLNESS which is in the DSM then they are without a doubt and beyond any argument, MENTALLY ILL. That being the case, why are you congratulating Bruce Jenner on giving in to his mental illness instead of seeking treatment for it????? Again, sorry to tell you, he is not a woman. He thinks he is a woman because he is mentally ill and his brain is not functioning correctly. Tell me, when you aren’t enabling people with gender identity issues like Jenner, do you go out and congratulate mentally ill homeless people on being able to hear voices the rest of us can’t hear? Because, there is no difference between the two things.
Oh gender dysphoria is a mental illness but gender reassignment, i.e. trying to twist reality to fit a false and warped perception of reality, for example that a genetic male is in fact a female, is not treatment by any stretch of the imagination. Treatment would be modifying the person’s perception to actually fit reality not trying to twist reality to validate the persons mental illness.
Yeah, again, I’m not sure Internet cranks get to recommend treatment for psychological disorders. That’s typically left to people with some training or expertise in the area.
Do you even know the meaning of the word pedophile? Clearly you don’t. What has Bruce Jenner ever done that would make you refer to him as that?
You are a truly horrible human being. Call me naive but it still to this day SHOCKS me that people like you exist. I’m sure you are a very lonely, angry person. The only person who looks like a “dipshit” is you. You are so pathetic, I almost feel sorry for you.
Thank you for this thoughtful article — it gives people a lot to think about. I don’t normally comment, but with all the hatred and vitriol present in the comments, I wanted to be a reasonable, grateful voice among them. All judgment is self judgment.
Keep being awesome!
[Comment deleted because it was rude and abusive and contributed nothing to the conversation.]
[Comment deleted, in which someone offered expertise on the science of gender, without bothering to learn anything about the science of gender. “Y chromosomes” and all that.]
Chris, why do you always feel the need to have the last word with someone you perceive as a bigot? This shows that you are just as shallow as the people you feel the need to correct. It’s the internet, people will make stupid comments. Be the bigger man, delete their comments and move on.
Why would you deny me one of my few simple pleasures, Mike??
[Comment deleted because it contributed nothing other than insults]
[Comment deleted. Internet tough guy. Also doesn’t know what Marxism is.]
[Comment deleted. Internet tough guy.]
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[Comment deleted. Internet tough guy (and spammer).]
[Comment deleted. Transphobic and not intended to contribute anything more than an insult.]
[Comment deleted. Didn’t contribute anything more than the commenter’s own transphobia.]
Does anyone care that Bruce Jenner killed someone in a car crash a few months ago?
It’s just completely irrelevant to this particular discussion. No one is making Caitlyn Jenner a saint or saying she’s a perfect person who has never done wrong; the point is that we each have a choice in how we choose to present ourselves, and that it’s worth considering the effect a joke or comment about a celebrity or public figure might have on innocent bystanders.
No. The gays and trannies and their supporters are pretty desperate for a hero. Even one that snuffed out the life of an elderly woman minding her own business sitting in traffic will do just fine. It would be really interesting though if Jenner were sent to a men’s prison in his current state, although, unfortunately, that probably won’t happen. If it did I bet the dress and makeup come off pronto and it’s back to being called Bruce again.
No free speech here, eh? Just delete any comment that disagrees with your point of view and put a label on it to justify your Nazi mentality. Well, 2 points while I’m here. Firstly, “homophobia” is bullshit. It means fear of the same gender, and even if it did mean fear of homosexuals nobody is afraid of them, they just don’t like some of them…probably because of mouthy, self-righteous pseudo victims like you. Secondly, I’ll tell any joke I want and I won’t apologize for it. If you have a problem with that, refer to the constitution…try to find the part that says the first amendment only applies to people who agree with you.
(1) There’s no such thing as free speech in a private forum. If you’d like to read more about my comment policy, you’re quite welcome: https://christopherkeelty.com/seriously-reconsidering-my-comment-policy/
(2) Your understanding of etymology is completely wrong. Sorry.
(3) While I’m at it, so is your understanding of human nature. But I do generally find that people who throw around pseudo-intellectual misstatements about one topic tend to do it with a number of topics, so you’re in keeping with the pattern.
(4) The First Amendment protects your right to free speech; you still have the power (and responsibility) to decide how you choose to exercise that right.
(5) The First Amendment protects you ONLY against government reprisal for your speech; it doesn’t protect you in any private forum, prevent reprisal from any private party (like for instance Twitter, or Facebook, or your employer), or prevent other people from exercising their own free speech in response to yours.
(6) To the contrary, the First Amendment protects MY right to own and maintain this blog, including any and all comments people choose to submit, and to police this blog, including those comments, in whatever way *I* choose since it is *MY* speech.
(7) So, for instance, the First Amendment does nothing to prevent me from deleting comments on my private forum, or from telling you that you are pretty much objectively wrong in every single point you’ve attempted to make here in this comment. Yay First Amendment!
You wrote all that and failed to:
1. Refute anything he said about “homophobia” which of course is almost non-existent. Virtually nobody fears gays, this is part delusion of grandeur on the part of gays, part ad-hom attack against their detractors and a very small part legitimate confusion of fear with disgust. Trust me, it’s 99.99% disgust.
2. Understand that the constitution doesn’t have to compel you to allow “free speech” on your site for you to allow it. Thus his comments are 100% accurate and your response about what the first amendment does and does not require and from who is 100% irrelevant.
2. Understand that his reference to the first amendment specifically, OBVIOUSLY refers to your poor excuses for refraining from free speech in the world at large, which is pretty much the sole purpose of your article. “Secondly, I’ll tell any joke I want and I won’t apologize for it. If you have a problem with that, refer to the constitution…try to find the part that says the first amendment only applies to people who agree with you.” Clearly takes a shot at the title of your article. You could have saved a lot of time and effort just by writing: “Don’t ridicule Jenner because some third party will get their itty bitty wittle feelings hurt”, because that was the sum total of it anyway.
You are hardly the first person to make excuses against free speech and discourse based on the idea that somebody will be offended. It’s the most common and pitiful excuse of them all.
95%+ of what you wrote was completely irrelevant and out of context to the comment you responded to, and 95% if being charitable.
Nobody is scared of you, other queers, or men that pretend to be women. FYI, “Phobia” in defined as “fear of an object or situation” by most dictionaries. You have a long way to go if you ever want to be taken seriously as a writer. Deleting anything that factually shoots down your argument or just screaming “Liar!” at facts (like a child) only makes you look like a fool.
Thank you for another incorrect etymology lesson–and a bonus lesson in adulthoood, which apparently involves anonymously vomiting your poorly-conceived opinions all over other people who don’t really care what you think, and then calling them names when they don’t honor your blather with undue reverence. I appreciate it.
Thank you for your very intelligent and moving post, it is my sentiments exactly
Thank you, Anon!
Speaking of facts being facts regardless of opinions….it’s a fact that every human being has a right to consider an act to be “wrong” or “sinful.” What ISN’T a human right is belittling, harassing, or harming others as a result of disagreement with issues. When the disagreements with lifestyles or other issues become bigotry, then the bigot becomes as sinful as the act he or she is rejecting. We all have a right to disagree with each other on ANY and ALL issues in life. We just don’t have a right to harm each other in any way because of the disagreements- or hate each other, for that matter. I do believe in the scriptures and the teachings of Christ. However, I don’t hate, or want to hurt, someone who lives any type of lifestyle or has a belief system that differs from my own. I believe I have every right to tell a gay person that I think being gay is a sin. That IS NOT bigotry. A gay person has a right to tell me I’m wrong for my beliefs, and I do not consider that bigotry. However, I believe gay people who try to stifle those who disagree with them are bigots.
I don’t impose my beliefs on others. If a person wants to harbor the idea that “it’s all OK as long as we aren’t hurting anybody,” then said person needs to make sure to allow ALL of us to exercise this point of view. I’m a Christian, and I’m NOT a bigot. I do not accept all lifestyles as “OK,” however, I do accept that all of us have EVERY RIGHT to live our lives as we so choose. We all were given the freedom to choose how to live life.
Sometimes it seems people in all walks of life need to remember the bottom line. We all have the right to live as we see fit, and we all have a right to disagree with each other’s lifestyles. If I say I believe your lifestyle is wrong, that is not “hate” or “bigotry.” That’s my right to disagree, and it is just as important as your right to live how you choose.
If only people could debate and disagree like educated adults. My neighbor is an openly gay man. He takes care of my cattle for me when I’m out of town. Great neighbor. He knows I believe being gay is wrong, according to scripture. He has no problem with this. He thinks I’m wrong for thinking it’s wrong and thinks I’m a backwards conservative. But we love each other as neighbors and agree to disagree on that one issue.
I don’t agree that Bruce Jenner should become a woman. But he did! And even though I think it’s wrong, it’s still his right….and I have the right to say it’s wrong! I don’t hate him for it. I would hope he wouldn’t be low enough to hate me for disagreeing with him.
Tara, good points and well presented. I think we essentially agree on all of this. That said, two quick points:
(1) There’s a lot of wiggle-room in defining whether a person is attempting to “stifle” another. For instance, a lot of Christians (I won’t say most, but a lot) believe marriage equality efforts are “stifling” their freedom of religion, which is ludicrous. By your own definition, it is the attempt to stop another person from doing something–like getting married to a person they love–that is harmful. So as long as we agree on definitions of “stifling,” I will totally agree with you.
Even if I disagree with you–even if I found your views so hateful and objectionable that I couldn’t stand to hear from you–I would defend your right to hold those views, and express them in the public square. Not necessarily here on my blog, but in the public square.
(2) At this point Bruce Jenner goes by Caitlyn, and prefers to be called her. While I understand you disagree with her decision, I’m also under the impression you prefer to be courteous and respectful. You should know that transgender people consider it highly disrespectful (even an act of aggression) to refuse to use their chosen name and/or gender.
Of course your conduct is entirely of your own choosing–that’s the whole point of this, after all–but you should know that. Just as you would (hopefully) not call a gay man a “faggot,” I hope you’ll choose not to continue referring to Caitlyn Jenner as “Bruce” or use masculine terms like “he” and “his.”
Thanks for the comment.
There is no disrespect or aggression behind my references to Caitlyn as “Bruce” or “he.” My references are actually out of respect for who Bruce was. I hope Caitlyn would have enough respect for the fact that everyone doesn’t agree with the morality of a gender change, and also that I grew up knowing the Bruce Jenner identity.
A gender change is a major change that many people find difficult to accept- and many won’t accept for personal reasons. I don’t have to accept Caitlyn Jenner as a woman. Caitlyn was born a man, and in my belief, a person is spiritually male or female. The trans gender community may look at this as “aggression” and disrespect, but I am not a member of the trans gender community and I’m living by my own standards. I’m not denying Caitlyn’s change. I’m not belittling her change. I’m not even disrespecting it. I am, however, disagreeing. And I’m defending my right to continue to see Caitlyn as the male athlete she was.
I don’t agree with laws governing gay marriage. Nor do I agree with laws governing straight marriage. Marriage is between two people and God, if they believe in Him. Marriage is a spiritual union. If people disagree with a certain “type” of marriage, they have that right. But the law should have no say so either way.
I’d never use a slur to refer to anyone. But I won’t deny my own personal thoughts, beliefs, and feelings, and adhere to the trans gendered rule of not referring to someone by his or her past identity. I believe Caitlyn Jenner would understand my feelings and thoughts and respect them, in part because I am respecting hers. I wish for Caitlyn’s happiness. But I still see her as Bruce, as of now, because of my views on gender.
I am not aggressive or disrespectful, and I don’t hurtle insults, as I’ve seen so many do in these replies. That is what I call aggression and disrespect.
Thank you for the opportunity to share here. I have never been treated with such respect by someone who does not identify as straight (aside from my neighbor).
Thanks for clarifying, Tara. I agree that too many people of many different perspectives are closed-minded and hostile when they meet differing opinions. I think the world would be very boring if we all agreed all the time, and as long as you aren’t harming me, there’s no reason for me to be anything but respectful of your views. I certainly have no guarantee that I’m right about everything.
That said, I will push back in one way on your attitude toward gender.
I heard a speaker recently (he wasn’t speaking on LGBT issues, nor was he anything but straight as far as I’m aware) recommend what he called “the Platinum Rule.” He said that in his view, the Golden Rule is too self-centered, even narcissistic–why should we treat other people the way WE want to be treated? The Platinum Rule, in his words, is: Treat others the way they wish to be treated. I’m in total agreement.
You present your own views, and that’s fine for your life, but think about things this way: I am not a Christian. I do not believe Jesus Christ was the son of God (or even a real person, frankly) or that almost anything in the Bible is true. However, I would never dream to tell you that you are “Not a Christian” because of my beliefs. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe, and while I won’t observe your religion or impose your beliefs on my life, I will address you by whatever terms you wish. If I were to accompany you to church, I would observe the church customs, and you’d never hear me voice opposition.
Why? Because that’s your place, and your life, and I will treat you the way you wish to be treated.
So I would suggest you consider a similar approach to Caitlyn Jenner and all transgender people. It does you no harm to refer to them by their chosen name, their chosen label. You can quietly choose to continue believing what you do, and even expressing those views as you see fit–but when your words aren’t necessary to making that point, you can be respectful and treat people the way they would like to be treated.
Just my suggestion, nothing I’ll impose on you. Thanks again for your comment and the dialogue, and for the mutual respect.
[Just a reminder, I don’t delete comments based on my disagreement; I only delete comments that meet BOTH of two criteria: (1) They are grossly offensive to any reasonable person’s sensibilities, and (2) they contribute nothing meaningful to the conversation aside from being offensive. So basically, trolling.
This particular post basically said gender transition isn’t possible and then compared queer people with sick dogs. So now it’s gone, but in its place is a valuable lesson about how to get deleted from this site.]
Wrong, he is going out of his way to make it everyones business. Their whole family thrives on the negative attention. thats why they keep doing stupid stuff to keep getting it.
I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong about “making it everyone’s business.” Public figures are indeed fair game for criticism. My central point is not that you can’t make those criticisms, it’s that you should consider the impact of what you say before you say it.
If you’re suggesting that Jenner transitioned just for attention, I think that’s pretty a pretty ludicrous statement, and pretty clearly not true.
If we all can make fun of Islam we must make fun of GLBT’s. THX for your consideration
Of course you can. No one is stopping you. No matter what you’re making fun of, though, it’s up to you to decide when, where, and how.
Thanks for the insight on the “Platinum Rule.” I agree that is a fine way to approach the treatment of others. One thing not mentioned…your article here makes good points. Personally, I can find humor is almost anything. But when the jokes can influence someone to the point of them becoming fearful or lead in the wrong direction regarding an issue, joking can be dangerous. Also, I read some of your writings. I’m a short story writer (extremely part time), as well, and I appreciate competent and entertaining writers. I don’t even recall how I stumbled on your sight, but I was not looking for Caitlyn Jenner when I did. Well done.
Thank you, Tara! I appreciate that.
I have a few short comments based on some of the comments made here. First, Chris has referred to the etymology of the word “phobia” when, in all fairness, the person taking about phobias quoted the definition, which are two different arenas.
Second, I would like to shed light on the comment about Christian hatred. The Holy Bible teaches that all people are born evil and sinful, with the ultimate end of a such a life being an eternity in the lake of fire, unless one turns to God. Quite a horrible end, indeed! So in sharing that message to hope that some would heed the warning is the mission of everyone is born again. Even one of the most vocal athiests of our day, Penn Jillette, has made the statement that he wonders how much one would have to hate another person if they withheld that warning! Granted, the attitude must be right, but I think you can see my point.
Last, I believe that denying the historical existence of Jesus life is either a little bit or ignorance or denial. While the Bible is considered a religious book, it has also proven to be historically accurate. Don’t forget that at least two Jewish historians make reference to Jesus, as well as other accounts outside of the ones mentioned here.
God bless you, may you live a long and healthy life!
He could do something really positive with all the attention he is receiving lately and do a PSA for the ASPCA, asking people to follow his lead and get their dogs neutered.
I wonder what Jenner’s new reality show will be called? Maybe Snip/Tuck
This freak needs a visious beat down. Your article sucked smelly bag. You are obviously a hog slurping homo calling Bruce “she” give me a break. He’s not going out of his house cause it knows it will get it’s face pounded in.
You are a fool. This “Freak” is doing this to himself for money and attention. He should be in jail for the person it killed. You seem to think you are better than everyone else because you like your mouth and ass packed with smelly hog. It just means you are sick in the head and should seriously consider suicide. It will all be meaningless come September 23rd.
A serious question: Would you tap that?
Why is there so much hype about what this idiot wants to do with his body? Who really gives a shit? If he wants to act like a freak, so be it. There are doctors who will do anything for $$$$, so if he wants to be a He-She and eventually cut off his genitalia because of some ridiculously mentally ill need, let him do it! The much bigger question here is, why the hell is the media hyping this up as much as they are. Can I give you a list of about 500 more important things to think about during the day than Bruce Jenner’s sad life story. Why not focus on the success you want to create in your life, and turn the other cheek on this. It is so not worth anyone’s time but Bruce Jenner and his therapists.
Comment deleted Comment Deleted Comment Deleted. Comment Deleted. What are you a Comment NAZI?
Nope, I’m not any kind of Nazi at all. You should maybe Google that word, it’s not really an appropriate label here.
Just had a lot of trolls visit this page recently, that’s all.
By “troll” I guess you mean people who disagree with your opinions. The fact is virtually all of you gays are extremely insecure and have a great deal of problem with any criticism of your chosen lifestyle. Your whole article is arguing against people criticizing trannys and gays. Why can’t trannys and gays handle criticism? Because you know there’s something wrong with your lifestyle? The truth does hurt the most. I mean I guess I can’t really blame you, how do you defend a lifestyle that has resulted in the HIV epidemic yours has? The HIV rate of men who have sex with other men is 44 times higher than that of straight men. 20% of MSM are infected with HIV. MSM are 4% of the population but make up 59% of all people in the US with HIV. Jesus man, you would have to go to some third world country to find HIV rates anywhere near as high as you gays have right here in America. The gay lifestyle is EXTREMELY UNHEALTHY and the proof is your absolutely absurd HIV rates. Your Syphilis rates are also ridiculous. About 42 times that of hetero men. Why? Because of rampant promiscuity and unhealthy sexual practices. I won’t even get into your HPV and corresponding rectal cancer rates in detail, but suffice it to say they are also off the charts.
I predict within 20 years 50%+ of gays will be infected with HIV, if new strains like the one discussed below don’t simply wipe you out first.
When my transgender son and I went to a Renaissance faire two weeks ago and one of the performers in the faire spouted off his extreme patriotism and dislike for others calling Jenner a hero, I could only think of how bad this sounded to my poor son. Fortunately, my son is very confident in his own skin. Your article really touched on some real truth; hate to any degree is painful and intolerable! Kudos to you!
WTF cares if you or your mentally ill, gender confused kid, who you are probably not getting any treatment, are offended? You have no right not to be offended. Offensive speech is 100% protected by the first amendment as it should be. GIving an award for bravery to Jenner before giving it to every single combat veteran still alive today is ABSURD IN THE EXTREME. You can add every fireman in America to that list too. The whole thing is a joke. Jenner is nothing but a freak in the Kardashian freak show. The only difference between this freak and most other freaks is that this freak killed a woman and he, that’s right I said HE should go to prison for it.
Ritchie, I’m concerned about your mental health. I’d recommend you go seek psychological counseling. This is not a joke or a put-down. You’ve spent a full hour posting hateful, angry comments on a blog of zero consequence. That’s not something a psychologically healthy person does, and I really think you should consider finding resources that can help you.
This is so gay and disgusting. I guess not so much for a guy who sucks shit juice off another mans faggot hog.
Lol funny ashell
I will say this, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior loves us so very much. Just ask Him into your heart and life and He will forgive you of your sins. Live your life for Him. I believe He is in the return mode for His own people. He is the only way out of this world into eternity with Him and the only way to eternity with Him is accepting Him as your personal Lord and Savior
Our sins crucify Jesus over and over. In as much as we sin, He is crucified even by the little ones that we think are “little”. There is no “little” sins in Gods’ eyes. All sin is sin and there is no level when it’s sin. Sin is sin no matter how “you look at it. Jesus willingly went to that cruel tree so that we might have everlasting life. We are only temperal here on earth but what happens to us after we pass away. Our eternal soul passes into eternity. Your choice now makes that choice where you will spend your eternity.
Would anyone expect a man who is proud of the fact that he sucks other men’s penises and takes it up the ass to have any other stance on Bruce Jenner? Despite mutilating his body and telling himself over and over that he “just knows” he is female, that Y chromosome went nowhere. Bruce’s gender/sex remain male today. Keep in mind, this is a man who killed someone a few months ago and fathered six children with three wives, all while “just knowing” that he is female. Very selfish guy any way you look at it. Finally, when someone is reportedly expected to make up to $500mil for a reality show following his “transition”, he knows what he is in for….fair game for all jokes/skits/etc in the real world.
Leviticus 20:13 – If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Does this mean that Bruce divorced his wife without all the nasty paperwork and lawyers so he could get on with his life as what he has done to himself. I’ll say it this way, rearranged what God has made him. Apparently he wasn’t happy with what God made him. God is perfect, He makes no mistakes but we do because we are born sinners and we think it’s okay to do something until it’s “too late” to undo the wrong we have done. We can ask for forgiveness of our sins. You first have to accept Christ Jesus as your personal Savior and live your life for Him daily. He loves you very much, John 3:16 (kjv)
Typical BS PC fluff piece.Everybody has to keep their opinions to themselves lest a tiny mentally ill portion of the population get offended. Who cares if people are offended? Also, sorry to break it to you but “homophobic” is just a word coined by the gay lobby. Nobody is afraid of gays, Just generally disgusted by the fact that they choose to stick their Johnsons in each others poo holes along with their rampantly promiscuous behavior. In so doing they have now achieved an HIV infection rate 44 times higher than that of straight men according to the CDC. Their Syphilis rate is 42 times higher. It’s just a very disgusting disease ridden lifestyle. Sorry gays but your brains are miswired and defective and that’s really just all there is to it. Anybody who isn’t disgusted by gays, spend about 10 minutes watching a San Fransicso gay pride parade and I promise if you aren’t one yourself, you will be disgusted. One look at their behavior and you will understand why 20% of them are now infected with HIV.
Ritchie you are so right! And good for you for speaking the truth and not jumping on the bandwagon like this moron Chris who clearly Sucks balls daily……Chris concern yourself with your lack of depth and personality.
Well thank you, but keep in mind that Chris is gay and gays are hypersensitive to any criticism of their lifestyle because deep down they know it is probably well founded. Don’t judge him too harshly. I mean if you were practicing a lifestyle that put you at a risk 44 times higher than normal of a fatal disease like HIV, you would probably be pretty hypersensitive too. Or, maybe you would just stop practicing that lifestyle. Something Chris might want to consider.
Love you comment. I feel the same.
Individuals should be able to express their opinions on your page, but I agree that they could have been less harsh in their wording. However, I am guessing they are fed up with the destruction of our rights, and our country on all levels. All this “gay stuff” has been thrown in our faces. If you disagree, you are a homophobic hater. It is a lot to digest. They are frustrated. I know I am.
It appears that some liberal minded individuals are offended by comments they disagree with. I personally do not agree with homosexuality or changing a person’s gender. I’m not homophobic because I have no fear of Gays-I just do not agree with their lifestyle on all levels. I do not dislike the individuals as a person. I still try to treat people with respect, but this works both ways.
It is difficult to accept him now a “woman”. I grew up watching him on commercials, and seeing him in magazines. He was such a nice looking man. He has been married several times and has, I believe, six children he fathered. How can he be confused?
He will always be a man because his DNA and his legacy of children will always prove this.
I do pray that he finds peace within his mind.
God can only judge, and each person shall be judged in the end. God will ask Bruce why he chose to switch his gender.
He will never find peace because he has chosen to give in to his mental illness. Contrary to what Chris believes, trying to twist reality to conform to a false and delusional perception born of mental illness is not a “treatment” for said mental illness. It is just a way to exacerbate it. it is no different that telling a schizophrenic that the voices in his or her head are real and that he or she should do what they say. Jenner’s perception that he is female is no more real or valid than those voices are.
July 16, 2015 at 2:09 pm
Ritchie, I’m concerned about your mental health. I’d recommend you go seek psychological counseling. This is not a joke or a put-down. You’ve spent a full hour posting hateful, angry comments on a blog of zero consequence. That’s not something a psychologically healthy person does, and I really think you should consider finding resources that can help you.”
This is a VERY typical response from a gay when their lifestyle is criticized. The gays cannot refute their rampant HIV and other STD rates and cannot make any factual arguments in defense of their lifestyle. Their old standby is the ad-hom attack. Question the mental health of those who criticize as though the mental health of someone who chooses to practice a lifestyle that puts them at a risk of HIV 44 times that of us straight men is beyond question. So Chris, why do men who have sex with men become infected wtih HIV at a rate 44 times higher than hetero men? Any answer or want to misdirect with more ad-homs?
The truth does hurt.
Nah… it is near impossible for me to believe you had the conversation you claimed to have… you jump back and forth between pretend banter with a “nasty closed-minded kind of guy–homophobic, misogynistic, and just generally lousy” and preaching moral high ground to the reader. So… you are a liar, but that is no big surprise.
While personally feeling people should be left alone to be happy – as long as they are not infringing on the rights of others, I generally find your article idiotic.
No, this transformation is a freak show – it is intended to be a freak show and any crocodile tear shed is another maneuver for gaining more infamy.
What is it with media brainwashed people, wake up. Yes big deal, dude put a dress on made other changes and truly identifies with being a woman… who cares either way. Putting a fully capable adult in some protective egg shell where they are off limits is the same thing you profess to be against.
Why don’t we all just start a fad where we introduce ourselves by a similar metric… ‘hi I’m a dude, I like women” ? and everyone rightly is like … who cares – shut up.
This pile is dripping of drama and the desire to make a big deal about nothing. Everyone gets made fun of it is a building block of comedy and the gateway to understanding each other. What kind of homogenized world do you want Hitler?
To me your lousy thought control fluff is no more than the usual celebrity gossip garbage.
There are real things happening in the world and not just the new fast food flavor slushy you posted here!!! You should be ashamed of trivializing what you are supposed to be standing for.
Your insight is amazing. This article is pure fiction.
No surprise, Chris has not responded denying your allegations. Basically, you just accused him of complete and total fabrication and he has made no defense at all. In my opinion, which according to him, nobody cares about anyway, that speaks volumes.
July 20, 2015 at 3:38 pm
No one cares what is disgusting to you, Ritchie. Your opinion is entirely irrelevant and unimportant.”
Chris, it’s VERY obvious that you care a great deal. If you didn’t you wouldn’t respond. The fact is that almost all of you gays are incredibly insecure about your lifestyle and thus are very upset whenever it’s criticized. If you were confident in it you would simply ignore criticism of it. Let’s face it, when you are infected with HIV at a rate 44 times higher than hetero men, are 4% of the population and account for 59% of all HIV cases, and when 20% of you are infected with HIV, you know there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with your lifestyle. Consequently you are hypersensitive to any criticism because deep down you know it is well founded. This is very obvious, so, please, do us all a favor and don’t try to pretend otherwise.
No healthy lifestyle results in these sort of epidemic rates of disease. It is just that simple.
Also, please stop defending a seriously mentally ill transexual like Jenner, who robbed an innocent elderly women of her life. It’s pathetic to defend a scumbag like Jenner no matter how ideologically in sync with you he may be. He could be completely 100% ideologically in agreement with me and I would still call him a scumbag for killing that woman and refusing to take responsibility, because, Chris, it’s what he is. Beyond any doubt. He should be put in prison for what he did. Why do you defend much less try to align yourself with such a worthless excuse for a human being?
Is it just me or do others notice how Chris fails to use logical argument but instead relies on ad-hom attacks and the alleged opinions of third parties and organizations absent any links to SPECIFIC citations? It’s also interesting that he deletes numerous posts apparently from those critical of gays and transgenders but leaves posts like:
“Anonymous II says
February 14, 2015 at 2:14 pm
Anybody who is that outwardly homophobic is typically a closeted homosexual themselves. If you were secure in your own sexuality, it wouldn’t matter who you’re around. This is 2015, grow the Fuck Up ! I’m sure you’re a racist at the very least as well. I also bet you own a gun. Do the world a favor, put the gun in your mouth a pull the trigger. The world won’t miss a simpleton like yourself…”
which clearly advocates violence and a criminal act in most jurisdictions i.e. suicide. Chris, you may be less biased than say….Huffington post or crooks and liars with regard to your censorship, and for that I suppose you do deserve some credit, but you are without a doubt still biased. WTF does the post above contribute to the discussion other than a view into the authors own serious mental illness and complete and utter inability to think logically? Let’s see “homophobia” (which is virtually nonexistent) indicates racism, and that one owns a gun????? LMFAO really???? If this is what passes for logic among the gay crowd it’s no wonder you have seemingly no concern with your epic rates of HIV and other diseases. HIV rate 44 times higher than hetero sexual men according to CDC, but hey, no problem, anybody who brings it up is just: 1. Homophobic, 2. owns a gun, and 3, Racist. LMFAO.
Damn that racist, homophobic, gun toting CDC. Obama needs to do something about those bastards. LMAO some more.
Folks, seeing as how this comments section has become a trigger for a particular very troubled troll, and seeing as how the post is pretty old and outdated, I am locking comments on this post. If you have something you’re dying to add, you have my apologies.
Comments are closed.